How To Really Run A City

Larry Platt: It is true that once a mayor, always a mayor. This is a good lesson for Mayor Johnson. You, you can always be five minutes out for the rest of your life, and he’s a young man.

Johnson: Well, I tell folks, in the occasion I am late, sometimes I say, you know, I’m not late, everybody else is just early.

Platt: The funny thing is, when we’ve done this live at our Ideas We Should Steal Festival, Mayor Nutter, who lives 10 minutes from the Comcast Ralph Roberts arena, where we, we do it at, he was, he was late. There he is.

There he is!

Platt:  I knew it. I knew you’d be at your spot, the Ritz-Carlton. JP said, “I’ve texted Mayor Nutter.”

I said, “He’s just ordering. He’s busy ordering the fried chicken delicacy with the iced tea, and whatever he puts in that iced tea.” I don’t, I don’t know,

Michael Nutter: No question. Good to see you guys. I heard you guys talking about age and all kinds of stuff. How old are you, anyway?

Johnson: 39. I’ll be 40 in November. 

Nutter: It’s amazing. That’s amazing. Congrats to you, Mayor. Godspeed.

Platt: Nutter, how old were you when you were first elected?

Nutter: When I, when I got elected, I was, I was, it was turning 50 that summer.

Literally like 50 and a half that January of 2008 There’s a younger crew, like Mayor Johnson, there. There’s a distinctly younger group of folks who are becoming mayors. And in many instances, you know, some of them, I mean, if they have, if they are in a term limit situation, I mean, some of them will have done two terms and not be out of their 40s.

That’s a whole other 20 to 25 years of work, yeah. If you want, you know, if you want, but I mean, that’s a hell of a platform to come from.

Platt: I think, I think Mayor Reed was elected at, at, I think he was not yet 40.

Nutter: Yeah, he was, he was younger.

Platt: It’s really interesting, because the more I talk to mayors, I do think you need a level of energy, a youthful level of energy, right? I mean, just the date, how long are your days, Mayor? Mayor Johnson.

Johnson: Oh, my gosh, they know two days are the same as I’m sure you’ve chatted with Mayor Nutter and Mayor Reed about before. I mean, I get up at, you know, 5-something in the morning, and you know, some days I don’t get home until 10 o’clock at night. This is, this is how it goes.

Nutter: 10 o’clock was an early night, Larry. We gotta work with these young guys. Yeah, what are you slacking?

Johnson: You know, when I go to the, we go to the grocery store, you’re still the mayor. You try to go to dinner with your wife, you’re still the mayor. You know, I went to have dinner the other day, and you know, we’re just out and somebody’s talking about potholes.

I’m like, can I, like, you know, take my kids to the park, and I’m pushing my kids on the swing, and yeah, somebody comes up to me like, “Hey, take a selfie with me right now, Mayor.” I’m like: ‘I’m kind of like doing something right now.’

Some folks were upset about some law enforcement stuff. Yeah, I got the kids literally in the swimming pool in the deep end, and they’re like, “I want to talk to you right now.” I’m like, “Kids … deep end.”

Nutter: “All right, son. All right, all right, all right, baby girl. Just hold on for a second. I need to have this detailed conversation while I’m teaching you to swim.”

Well, you know, one of the best ones is out at the movies, supermarket, barbershop, restaurant, and it always starts with, “I hate to interrupt …”

Johnson: But I’m like: But you are.

Nutter: I was in, I was in the market one time, and it was an older, older couple, older Black couple, and the man wanted to talk to me about whatever he wanted to talk to me about, right? And I got my grocery basket, and I’m pushing my cart, and the whole thing. And then at some point, the Black woman, the older Black woman, just like, “Don’t you see, he’s trying to shop? Leave that alone.”

He said, “But I have some things I want to talk about.” Call his office.

Johnson: Yeah, yeah, yeah. God bless some of those folks that do that and recognize, like, the human nature of the job … but people always say, like, you know, I see you everywhere, like, you’re, you’re in every single place, or all over, like, “When do you sleep right now? When people do recognize that, like, it’s yes, it’s always refreshing.

I think for a lot of people, they think, like, oh, you know, the mayor’s coming to my event, or, I saw him at, you know, this one event. Well, yeah, that’s one event, but everybody’s got an event, and there’s only one of, one of me, or one mayor, you know. So, like, there’s this, there’s a toll.

Nutter: Exactly.

Platt: Hey guys, we’re waiting for Mayor Reed, but I might as well start and read the introduction, and then we’ll, and Mayor Reed will join us, and we’ll give him shit.

Welcome to this episode of How to Really Run a City, powered by Accelerator for America, the nation’s leading do tank for cities. I’m Larry Platt of The Philadelphia Citizen, a nonprofit, nonpartisan media organization that seeks to reinvigorate democracy in the American city where it was born. 

Joining me, as always, are two accomplished practitioners of the art of urban change making, former Atlanta Mayor Kasim Reed and former Philadelphia Mayor Michael Nutter. As I speak, Mayor Reed is five minutes out.

If you’re frustrated by the bickering and the finger pointing and the just plain stupidity coming out of Washington, D.C., then this podcast is for you. It’s a testament to the notion that there are really three political parties in America: Democrats, Republicans, and mayors who have no choice but to be practical problem solvers. So, with that, I want to welcome, say hello to Mayor Nutter, while we wait for Mayor Reed, and welcome our guest, Milwaukee Mayor Cavalier Johnson. Welcome, Mayor.

Johnson: Great to see you.

Nutter: Absolutely, good to see you, man. Good to see you. How are things? Let’s … tell us about the heartbeat of what’s going on in your city, special election. How’d you win?

Platt: And that was in ’22 right?

Nutter: ‘22.

Johnson: When I first became mayor. Yeah, it was 2022, I was 35 years old at the time I was city council president, and President Joe Biden had appointed our former mayor, almost 20 years long serving. We have really long serving mayors here. His name is Tom, or is Tom Barrett. President Biden appointed him U.S. Ambassador to Luxembourg. So we went off to Europe, because I was city council president, I was appointed acting mayor, and then got thrown immediately into this, you know, jungle primary election to fulfill the remainder of Tom’s term, in which we had the sitting county sheriff, you know, state senator who had 100 percent name ID been in the office for about 20 years, an alderman who had the same sort of credentials, county, the former county board chairwoman, who’s a current city of Milwaukee alderwoman, you know, some other folks, and then there was me, like the kid who happened to be council president, and so seven people in the race, we ran through it, I came out, I think 42 percent in the primary.

Nutter: In a seven way race?

Johnson: In a seven-way race. 

Nutter: That’s significant. 

Johnson: Yeah, yeah, I felt really good about about what we were doing in the time that I’ve been in office, including as acting mayor, and you know, voters awarded that, and of course won the general election with 79 percent of the voters, so then you know, won reelection in 24 after completing Tom’s term with a little over 80 percent of the vote, and now we’re here, and things I think are are going pretty well in Milwaukee. Certainly like all cities, we have challenges that we’re working to address, but, but I feel I feel really good about where we’re headed.

Platt: 80 percent of the vote, that’s like that’s like Vladimir Putin level stuff.

Nutter: The difference is Putin’s still looking for the other 20 percent.

Johnson: I think, like everything probably goes down from here.

Platt: Hey, what’s the, what’s the deal with your nickname, “Chevy?”

Johnson: Oh yeah, so I got the nickname because my name is Cavalier. So back in the day, Chevrolet Chevy used to make a car called the Cavalier.

And I had a, I have a really good friend, and he and his family immigrated here from Mexico many years ago. I met him when I was 14 years old. I’ll be 40 later this year, in November. And because of his accent, he couldn’t pronounce “Cavalier,” he couldn’t say my name, and he was my camp counselor in this mentorship program run by the YMCA that we both were part of. And I sat him down, he sat me down. We try to practice.

He’s like, he said, “Look, I just can’t say it because of the accent. Can I just call you ‘Chevy’ as a nickname?” And it stuck — Chevy — because of Cavalier. So that’s how it happened when I was 14, and people still call me Chevy today.

Nutter: That’s awesome, reading about you and hearing some of the things that you’ve talked about, you. Have a somewhat as a Democrat, somewhat unique person who was inspiring to you, none other than President George Bush. What was that about?

Johnson: This goes back to that YMCA program that I was involved in when I was recruiting to the program. The program had basically two goals, one stated, one less self-stated.

The main goal was to get kids from low-income families and Milwaukee public schools, like myself, who had never had a family member to go to college, to have the tools, the resources, the scholarships to go on the road to go to college, and for many of us to be the first people in our family to graduate from college. And I did that, accomplishing that part of the program.

The other part of the program, which I thought was just as impactful and just as important, was public service. So they would have us getting up on the weekends, you know, feeding the homeless, picking up litter later in the year, shoveling snow, picking up, you know, raking leaves for the elderly, things like that. And for whatever reason, I just kind of fell in love with helping people in my community. I just, I just, I just liked it.

And then that same year, 9/11 happened. I was a freshman in high school, at Bayview High School here in Milwaukee, and I eventually ended up seeing the images of President Bush at the time in New York and putting his arm around the firefighter at Ground Zero. And for some reason I just, the light bulb just went off in my head, and I said I need to do that.

Nutter: Wow.

Johnson: Reason being, is because I could have, and then I’m 14 years old at the time, and you’re 14, so you think you’re gonna like, run for president or something like that, but to me, I thought to myself that I could have a career in government where I, where I could help people, like I fell in love with doing the YMCA, those two things could, could marry, and I just, and I just never looked back. And so that’s, that’s ultimately how, how we got here, and you know it was YMCA, certainly, but the President’s compassion to show for folks in this country at the time that helped to put me here.

Nutter: At 14. Yeah, I was thinking about wanting to become a professional football player, that was, and obviously that didn’t work out too well. But no, that’s a, that is just such a wonderful story.

Mayor, you mentioned earlier some of the, some of the challenges, and I know you ran very hard on the issue of public safety. Talk to us about that work, and where do things stand now, and, you know, you, I guess, came into the mayor’s office, even in the acting capacity, right on the tail end of things opening back up in terms of, you know, COVID-19. But many, many cities across the country experienced an explosion of crime, criminal activity, during and the aftermath of COVID-19, so talk to us about how all of those issues merged.

Johnson: Yeah, so yeah, COVID was a disaster for us here too, not just the loss of life from people who were affected by a disease, but also, I mean, the violence that that emanated from that too. In 2022, so I was already mayor — I’d been reelected that year — the highest amount of people who had been killed by homicide in the city’s history, 214 people murdered in 2022 in the city, as, as many cities saw, you know, those rises with COVID.

And so we have, so we ended up working in a way to address, you know, that situation, but crime just generally in Milwaukee. And it really is a two-pronged approach for me, and I continue to use it to this day. It’s accountability and prevention. Accountability and prevention. Like if somebody does something bad or they cause an incident of death, harm, or destruction in Milwaukee, as I, you know, often say, I think those folks should be held to account, and I think that the people in my city, they also agree, because when you watch the news coverage, right, and families are out there and they’re releasing balloons, right, and they’re trying to remember somebody who that they love or whose life was taken away too soon, they’re saying that they want justice for their family member; they want justice for their friend, and they also don’t want for other families in this community to be impacted by that same sort of violence.

And so I agree with them. And so you know, I support our law enforcement, support our police every year, every budget I put the maximum amount of funding that I can into the budget to have three classes, which is the most we can do, and 65 recruits in those classes. I fund that every single year, which is the max we’re able to do out of the Milwaukee Police Academy. 

Because I want to have maximum, you know, police force on our streets. But then there’s the prevention part of this too, because ultimately I don’t want people to make those bad decisions in the first place. So if folks are looking to retaliate against. Somebody will, we have your violence interrupters that are out there. We got a longstanding summer youth jobs program called Camp Rise.

I created a new program because of my mentorship background that works with kids between the ages of 10 and 13 years old before you can even get a work permit. And so Milwaukee, under my leadership in those programs, is the only major city in the United States doing workforce development with kids as young as 10 years old. And the reason we started that was because those kids were being recruited to steal cars and do bad things.

Nutter: Right.

Johnson: So we’re making a lot of inroads, a lot of impact to Milwaukee. Crime overall is down in the city, and I’m happy to do that, and I level set with people in our city, so every single quarter, what I’ve instituted since I’ve been mayor is having myself, the police chief, the director of our community wellness and safety (our violence prevention office, essentially) in the district attorney, and on a quarterly basis, we go in front of every single news camera and we give the statistics directly to the people of Milwaukee, so that they know what’s going on.

Nutter: Right, right, right, right.

Platt: That workforce development thing is interesting to me. How does that, how does that actually work?

Nutter: Yeah, and how do you pay for it?

Johnson: Yeah, so we got a number of great partners. We do some philanthropic fundraising. We do some fundraising within the business community here as well. I want to expand this because I just got a report just the other day that there are, you know, there were like 3,000 kids that apply for summer jobs here in Milwaukee, but this year we’ve only got the capacity, the funding, to support about 880 of those kids.

We got the balance of those kids who reached, they did reach their hand out, they did the right thing, they said they want to be involved in something positive, and then we just don’t have the money to do it. And so there’s more work that needs to happen there. Some of that funding comes from federal sources, [unintelligible], we get an allocation from state government every single year that unfortunately hasn’t grown with, you know, inflation, as you know, a lot of state aids to cities, including ours, haven’t. So those are the sorts, sorts of ways that we, that we pay for, but there’s I think there’s a lot more work that we can do in order to grow those programs, and it’s good for everybody.

Nutter: Talk to us about … Mayor, is obviously a quite singular job, but you can’t get it done all by yourself, got to work with the state and the federal government. What’s it been like over the past few years, as a, as one of America’s great cities, working with the state and with the feds?

Johnson: Well, it historically had been difficult for Milwaukee to work with the state. I mean, I mentioned our, my predecessor, Tom Barrett, who again was mayor of this city for, you know, 20 years roughly, and when you’re mayor of Milwaukee, much like I’d imagine when you’re mayor of Atlanta or you’re mayor of Philadelphia, you’ve got this huge, you know, the big city, and you know folks from outstate, they villainize you, right? They try to, they try to stick it to you. It’s a tale as old as time. It’s the Republican playbook that happens all over the country. So, we had that same sort of thing.

There was a lot of bad blood between the former mayor and Republicans in leadership, because of the, I think, because of the time, because of the fact that he had not just run for governor in an open seat, but ran as well in a recall effort against Republican Governor Scott Walker, who later on did run for president 2016. So there was some bad blood. Nothing was going to happen with them. I think everybody knew that.

When I was elected mayor, I knew immediately that we had to address the financial situation that was affecting Milwaukee, and …

Nutter: You had a structural deficit.

Johnson: Yeah, yeah, and I could, I could either like sit on my hands and just, you know, point to Madison and blame the Republicans, or I could try to work with them in the time that they’re in power in order to get something done for Milwaukee, and that’s exactly the sort of approach that I, that I, that I laid out. And we were successful in getting, you know, our first increases in shared revenue in many years, and then also have the ability to have a city sales tax, which you know, Milwaukee, I think, was probably the only major city in the United States that didn’t have that tool as a revenue generator.

Nutter: You spent a lot of time in Madison?

Johnson: I had what I called ‘a cot in the capital.’ I spent a lot of time, I spent a lot of time, in the capital working to make that happen. Was it perfect? No, did we get everything that we wanted?

And quite frankly, I think the city got what it deserves? No. But we got more than what we have been getting. And my thought is this, like, you know, there’s going to be more elections, there’s going to be a new legislature, things will eventually change.

I need to get the ball moving, that’s why I tell, to you know, my really progressive friends. Me, the key word in progressive is progress. It’s progress, and I can’t just sit on my hands and do nothing when there’s an opportunity to do something, and if there’s an opportunity to put the city in a better position, then that’s exactly what I intend to do.

Platt: That’s what I was going to ask. Did you get progressive pushback to your bipartisan efforts. Because you also were very instrumental in lobbying to bring the Republican National Convention to your city. So, I wonder, how, how that went over with, with those to your left.

Johnson: Well, as you said, there’s three parties, right? There’s the Democrats, Republicans, and there’s mayors. And mayors have to be practical, because we have to, we gotta get stuff done. Like this is, this is truly where the rubber meets the road in cities, right?

And so, yeah, I mean, there were detractors on the Democratic side in my own party, they didn’t want the, you know, the deal that I, that I, you know, work to strike with others as well to benefit Milwaukee. I guess they’re not looking in the long term, you know, because I think for some of them they thought the politics are just different. Like I’ve got a responsibility to make sure that the city doesn’t go bankrupt, they are just, you know, punching up and fighting from the minority. And that’s fine, and they should do that. But I still have responsibility to deliver services to constituents. So the politics are just different.

On the Republican National Convention, I really wasn’t too concerned about what folks had to say about the politics, because to me it wasn’t a political decision, it was a business decision. It was about putting Milwaukee on an even greater map, so that people all around the country and really all around the world could see that this is a bona fide big city with big city amenities that could host the largest events in the United States. I mean, the Republican National Convention and the Democratic National Convention are, you know, the highest security threat.

Nutter: Special security event.

Johnson: Yeah, yeah, the highest security threshold you have in the United States. And we did it. We did it. In Milwaukee, is one of the only cities in recent memory, that is, that is one, at least, COVID kind of threw the DNC off in 2020. But we won the DNC in 2020 and the RNC in 2024. There’s not many cities that can say that, and we did it at a successful convention.

Nutter: Yeah, Mayor, you should feel reaffirmed, validated, vindicated. Ed Rendell — you’re not going to find a bigger Democrat anywhere in the country — Ed brought the Republican National Convention in 2000 It literally did put Philly back on the map at a, you know, coming out of the 90s, and you know. And then I was involved, and we applied in 2014 for the DNC in Philadelphia in 2016. But you know the elected officials, many, many Democrats went to the parties, went to the events back during the Republican convention. And you know, as you said, your job is to get stuff done, right?

We can be hyper political about two days a year. Otherwise, you know, you’re filling potholes, you’re picking up the trash, you’re moving the snow, you’re dealing with severe weather events. People need jobs. Folks want to be safe. And you know all this other stuff. You know people who don’t have that responsibility, as they say, you know, things always look a little different from the cheap seats.

Johnson: Yep, yeah, exactly. (Laughs.)

And you know, I mean, for us, you know, it was not a political decision to me. It was a business decision, it was about, you know, set Milwaukee on that, on that course, and opening the city up for tourism. I think that is an untapped source for our economy to grow here in Milwaukee.

Now today, our convention center, which you know, a couple years ago, during Covid, I was on the board there, voted to expand it. We’ve doubled the size of it. Now after that national and global exposure that we got, like, that place is …. I’m there like every week. There’s always a convention going there. And they saw many of them because of the RNC. They were intrigued by Milwaukee because of that, right? Tourism is booming here.

People are having so many great experiences this year. We have a banner year for Great Lakes cruising. Folks are coming from all over the world, touring the Great Lakes, starting in Toronto and ending their cruises here in Milwaukee. Here in Milwaukee. So it was a play for future, future events, future large-scale events that bring tourism dollars to this, to the city. We’re attracting outside money that we were never getting before, and the RNC was a big, big, big part to start that.

Nutter: We talk, talk about the future a little bit. It sounds like you all don’t have term limits.

Johnson: We do not.

Nutter: Right. Talk a little bit about the economy, people’s pocketbooks, that kind of thing. Talked about tourism, which, what’s your vision for the future? Where are things going?

Johnson: So, the long-term vision that I’ve laid out is growing the city. I mean, I want Milwaukee to be a city of a million people, and I want to get to where Philly is, you know, one day down the line.

Nutter: Slow down, young man, slow down. It, we ain’t having all that. (Laughs.)

Johnson: I want to get there over time, and I want to do it in a smart way.

Platt: What’s your population now?

Johnson: It’s a little under 600,000 a little over 600,000 I don’t know the exact figure. We’ve been, you know, kind of. Going back and forth with Census Bureau, but a little over under 600.

(Laughing.)

Nutter: All rise!

Mayor Kasim Reed: FIFA today. Thing is taking over the city, even I could get through what’s going on … FIFA. This FIFA soccer tournament prep.

Platt: Welcome, Mayor Reed. Thank you for joining us. We were just listening to Mayor Johnson talk about he was instrumental in securing the Republican convention for his city, and what really opened my eyes is the amount of tourist dollars that are still emanating from that 2024 convention, as he said it was a because he got some shit from progressives, but it was a business decision, and I thought that was real. That’s really, for practitioners, and really, for office holders, a good message to hear.

Reed: How do you think you won it?

Johnson: How do we, how did we win it?

Reed: How’d you win at the end of the day? What do you think was the differentiator in terms of what you and your team did? I mean, there are few processes more competitive than that.

Johnson: Yeah, so I think, the thing that’s sort of, well, two, I think two things seal the deal, and I wasn’t involved in every single meeting or visit visitors convention bureau, some others, but there were two things I think that were really instrumental that I was involved in. 

One was when the site selection committee, they were going around the country, they were touring different sites. They came here and they had an absolute ball. They had the time of their life. One of our amazing restaurateurs, Paul Bartolotta, Bartolotta Restaurants, gave them an incredible, incredible meal at one of his restaurants overlooking Lake Michigan. Just, it was phenomenal. It was intimate.

I was asked at that time to get up and talk about what it would mean to me. And sort of going back to an earlier question about how I got involved in politics in the first place, and being inspired by a Republican President, actually, even though I’m a Democrat, being inspired by President George W. Bush to go into office. And that was, that was illuminating to a lot of folks that were there. And then the final pitch, this was two weeks, I believe it was, before my election, where I took a day off the campaign trail and did an in and out trip to Washington, D.C. to their headquarters, and we sold them that day. So I think it was those two things that ultimately made them say, We’re going to Milwaukee.

Platt: Mayor Reed, I thought of you when Mayor Johnson was talking about he decided to go into, we saw George W. Bush at 9/11 and decided to go into public service when he was 14, I think, and that, that’s just like your story. Mayor Nutter was still learning to tie his shoelaces at 14, but you … 

Nutter: I had Velcro.

Platt: But you were, you met Andrew, Andrew Young, and that inspired you, right?

Reed: 10 years old. Yeah, that was my moment. Yeah, I wondered: Why in the world did my mother spend all this time getting us ready for church? Like, what was going on? I mean, we, she had us as four boys, so to get all of us at our Sunday best, and we were there early to get a seat. It just was so much going on. Now I remember wondering why my mother, why this was such a big deal. And then when Ambassador Young walked into Ben Hill United Methodist Church, that place erupted like Michael Jackson was there.

It was just a real moment. I just remember like it was yesterday, wondering what was going on. And it’s really interesting: I think now Mayor Johnson will do that for some other kid. It’s the thing that I think about all of the time, that there’s somebody out there right now that he’s going to do that for who’s 14 and 15 years old, that’s going to meet him somewhere.

Nutter: That’s, that’s one of the crazy parts of these jobs. You, you never know the impact that you have on other people. You never know how folks see you. And I run into young people who are now in their 20s, who would have been like eight?

And they’re like, oh, Mayor Nutter, so, so good to see you. You, you came to my school when I was in third grade. I’m like, ‘Couldn’t you just say we met before?’ (Laughs.)

Reed: Yeah. I mean, I’ve got a funny story. I was with Ant Man, who now plays for Minnesota, and we actually restored a park near where he lived, and we were together probably two or three nights before he got drafted number one, and he was telling me he wanted to be mayor. 

Platt: Are you serious?

Reed: Yeah, so both Anthony Edwards and Lil Baby, yeah, the recording artists are both from the same part of the city of Atlanta, and so we were together. He was having hot dogs, probably two nights before he got drafted, and ended up getting a quarter of a billion dollar contract, and I said, well, let me tell you, but it worked out for you just fine.

Nutter: Life has a way of doing that, has a way of doing that. Mayor Reed, were you on the.. I see you, you have a somewhat different outfit on the day, is that what they wear on the G4?

Reed: Hey Mayor Johnson, you see this abuse? I rush through FIFA traffic. I wanted to sit and interview with you, and interview you, and I, and I still have to take this abuse from my, from my big brother colleague …

Nutter: Mayor Johnson, let me assure you, he gives as good as he takes. There’s some other shows you listen to. There’s a lot of incoming.

Johnson: That’s, you know, Brandon Scott or Justin Bibb beat me up like this in the future.

Reed: Mayor Johnson, what’s been the best part of the job? What makes you happiest?

Johnson: What makes me happiest? Actually, I like being around people, and I’ve been around this office for some time. I used to work in this office, as a matter of fact, as a staffer for the, for the former mayor. And that was one of the most intriguing parts, like seeing him interact with people out in the public. And now, like, I get to do that, like, it’s, it’s such a pleasure. But especially, especially kids. And I do, I go to so many, I go to so many schools, so many elementary schools in Milwaukee, working to engage with and mentor kids in Milwaukee, because I think it’s important for them to see their reflection in this office, you know.

I tell them, you know, like there’s nothing inherently special about me, and if I was able to do this, and you can do it too. It’s so interesting to me, like when I was, you know, their age, you know, third grade, fourth grade, fifth grade, like I had no clue who the mayor was, I had no clue.

But now when I go to a park, or if I go to, you know, the grocery store someplace. I see kids in that age grade, then an age group, and like, Oh my god, there’s the mayor. I was sneaking into Target the other night, and there was this kid who, like, was like viciously, you know, tapping his mom’s arm, saying, oh my god, the mayor’s right there, the mayor’s right there, you know. So, like, I think that’s, that’s a really, really powerful thing. It’s all about it’s all about service, man.

Nutter: Yeah, the kids always know.

Reed: Hey, Mayor Johnson, when did at what point in your campaign did you know you were going to win? Did you feel it? Tell me about it.

Johnson: Um, in the.. I felt I felt good about the primary, even though there were.. there were, so there were seven people in my primary, some like really big names in our city. I felt really good about the primary. I didn’t, I, so I felt like I would win. I didn’t know by how much. And then a seven person race, and getting 42 percent of the vote, I thought that was pretty damn good.

And then in the general election, the first time around, my opponent was a conservative, and I’m in the Democrat, Democratically leaning city, so I felt pretty good about that. I didn’t take it for granted, though, because anything could happen. Gosh, I don’t know if there was a particular moment, because I just, I just grind the whole time. I treat it as if I wasn’t going to win. But I did feel confident that I would win, but I just worked so hard I wasn’t even looking back, so I couldn’t even tell you the answer to the question.

Reed: What were your campaign days like? Oh my gosh, we have a lot, awful lot of folks to listen to this podcast, so we hope will one day will run. We try to take them into the locker room, so to speak of that aspect of the campaign as well.

Johnson: Yeah, it was, they were a lot: It was early mornings; it was late nights, I mean, there were more candidate forums. I mean, I think it’s kind of overkill, quite honestly, with because many times you get like the same people that go to these different things. These days like they’re all recorded, you could always go back and watch them and stuff like that, there’s more candidate forums than we have, you know, debates for president these days for city mayor. So, I think some of that is a lot. But yeah, there were a ton of those.

A lot of hours locked in the room calling people for money, which I still, you know, do every single week. In fact, I’m doing some later today. I say it’s my part-time job, so I can keep my full-time job. We had to, we had to raise almost a million dollars in order to run and win. So, and it was, yeah, and I was away a lot from my, from my, from my kids, which was, which was difficult. But it’s a sacrifice you have to make if you want to have this opportunity to serve your city.

It was during Covid, so I did catch Covid when I was out there collecting signatures, so that was difficult. My wife was not thrilled with me, because I already wasn’t helping out a lot at home, then I had to be sequestered away from everybody, so I really wasn’t helping. It was, it was, it was a lot, it was a lot, it was challenging. But we made it through.

Nutter: Mayor, I got the impression when we were talking earlier, when you started listing some of those candidates, and I mean, you know, I don’t, I don’t know them, but it sounds like … Were you the youngest?

Johnson: I’m always the youngest.

Nutter: Thanks a lot. You’re picking up too much for Mayor Reed over here. That’s a great comeback, though.

Johnson: Yeah, no, I, I was … I was the youngest in the race, thinking that was. I mean, when I started this job as acting mayor, and when I was elected, that was, was 35 years old. Tom Barrett, my predecessor, he started, he was, he was 50 when he started for about 20 years.

Nutter: That was, that was the part I’m, I’m, I’m additionally intrigued by. So you had been in the, I guess, the council.

Johnson: Yeah, I was on the council one election there in 2016 one election reelection in 2020 was elected council president in 2020 as well.

Nutter: Got it. So, I mean, that is a, that is a pretty meteoric kind of rise, quite honestly, in that kind of race. A seven-way race, you’re the youngest person, possibly with the maybe lesser amount of experience than some others, and to Mayor Reed’s point, when other people listen to this to this podcast, who may be thinking about running for office, I mean, those are some seemingly almost insurmountable odds.

Johnson: Yeah, the way that I distinguished myself, I mean, I think I focused in on the issues that people care about, right, the bread and butter issues, you know, public safety, you know, you know, investment in the services that we provide, you know, to folks, making sure the trains run on time, essentially. But then also having this larger, more populous vision for the city in terms of growth. I mean, that’s what I talked about, in terms of having a million Milwaukeeans and growing the city, and having the vision to do that over time.

I think people want to vote for something, right? They want to vote for somebody who has a grand vision for, for their city. And that’s what I laid out to folks. So, so are those things I think that helped to distinguish me from some of the other folks that you know had these sort of niche things that didn’t really make a citywide impact that everybody was able to rally from.

I had, I think, a campaign that everybody in Milwaukee could say, Hey, I want to, I can buy into that, I can see us, you know, being a bigger, stronger city with more, you know, influence across the country, nationally. I can see us being a city of a million people, because then it’s kind of harder to not pay attention to you, you know, you get other investment, it helps to create more vibrancy in neighborhoods. I think people really glommed onto that.

Nutter: The boldness of a vision.

Johnson: Yeah, yeah, essentially, yeah.

Platt: On a practical level, how do you, how do you do that? How do you, and how is it, how is the project coming? How do you attract people as opposed to jobs, or are they, or is that an interconnected web?

Johnson: Yeah, no, it’s, it’s, it’s a number of things, it’s, it’s, it is family support and jobs. And we’ve been really successful in Tom’s term, and my term, you know, too, with drawing employers that may have started in the city of Milwaukee, but then moved out to the suburban communities. We’ve been drawing them back into the city of Milwaukee, creating stronger, you know, tax base.

Milwaukee Tool, a couple years ago, just opened up a headquarters in downtown Milwaukee. Excuse me, Pfizer, which is the naming rights partner for Pfizer Forum where the Milwaukee Bucks play. They were located in suburban Brookfield. They were looking to go elsewhere for their global headquarters. I mean, the CEO sits out eastern New York, New Jersey. They’ve a large office presence in Omaha, in Atlanta too.

We petitioned them hard and said we want you in the city of Milwaukee. And now their global headquarters is just a few blocks from where I’m sitting right now in City Hall. Northwestern Mutual, Northwestern Mutual, which is one of the — it’s one of the oldest companies in the state, the biggest company in the state of Wisconsin — they’ve been in Milwaukee. They had their headquarters here, they had a redundant sort of office space in one of our suburban communities. They could have built more capacity there.

We worked with them to bring 2,000 jobs into the city of Milan. Right, so we’re having a lot of success with doing that. So it is about attracting those jobs.

It’s also about making sure that you’re laying the groundwork for growth, and that’s exactly what we’ve been doing. When I came into office, we worked with the community with our departments of development to update our zoning codes, really the groundwork to do that. So we have this huge plan called the Housing Element, which has a couple pieces that have to be voted on by council members, but when those things happen, it’ll open the doors for future growth, having developers to be able to make things as of right, taking some of the contested nature out of these things. 

I challenged our departments — because I’m looking around at some of the suburban communities and seeing developments that are happening there — I’m saying, hey, why is that happening there and not here? And I think if we were more progressive in our approaches in the administration, some of that stuff that’s happening there would otherwise be happening in the city. And so the permitting, you know, time, you know, for us has gone down by, you know, 33 percent. We’re the fastest, you know, permitting municipality, you know, in Southeast Wisconsin. It’s those sort of things I think that help us to, to get to this point.

I could mention other things too, like our, you know, biking infrastructure, which we’re, you know, laying out. We’re a Vision Zero City. We’re doing a lot of things to become attractive to employers, attractive to former residents, and attractive to people who want to continue to stay in our city as well.

Reed: Who on your team led your permitting effort? Who fixed it?

Johnson: The, yeah, so the policy folks in the mayor’s office, but then also working in conjunction with, with the department, our department of Neighborhood Services, or Building Inspection Office. I mean, they’re the ones where you know folks have to go through in order to get the, in order to get the permitting.

And so again, I’m looking at some of these other suburban communities, and they’re pumping stuff out, you know, really quickly. And I see I saw these reports, even before I was mayor, that it’s difficult to do that sort of business in Milwaukee, and I asked the question of Why, why?

it shouldn’t, especially if it’s happening elsewhere, it shouldn’t be that hard to do that work in Milwaukee, because again, I believe that if we were more progressive, if we had different policies, a lot of that development that’s happening in the suburban communities, which is kind of like a carbon copy of some of the more popular places in the city, just, you know, planted out there, that stuff will be happening here anyway. So let’s find a way to cut some red tape and make it easier for development to happen here.

Reed: Yeah, if you’re the guy that fixed that in a real way, that’s something that could help an awful lot of municipal leaders across the country.

Nutter: Absolutely.

Reed: That’s real pain point for some of the best cities in America.

Nutter: Larry, the mayor, the mayor just said one of the, I think, one of the most powerful words that any elected official can say, but certainly an executive is “Why,” Why this? Why not that. 

You know, you’re just often surprised. There’s, there’s, there’s usually one of two answers. Well, because we’ve always done it that way, or we don’t know, neither of which is acceptable.

When I came in, you know, I asked about something. Somebody gave me the, you know, “because we’ve always done it that way.” I said, all right, it’s big, big room. I said, “All right, you get a pass. the next time I ask that question, and the next person to the system, ‘we’ve always done it that way.’ They’re being fired.”

Johnson: Yeah, and you’re right. I mean, I think it is, you know, powerful. I’m sometimes, I think, too inquisitive about things. I get in trouble with that at home sometimes, but it’s good for government. It’s good to ask those questions. I mean, this picture that’s, you know, behind me here on the wall, I mean, that’s from, you know, the Bloomberg Harvard mayor’s, you know, program that I participated in before, and that’s one of the, that’s one of the things I took away from that is like, ask the question why, be curious, you know, in this job, yeah, yeah,

and it’ll help to lead to success, I mean, I think that’s part of the reason why, why we found some of the success that we did with overhauling our permitting, and again, now we’re like the fastest permitting municipality in southeast Wisconsin, which is great.

Platt: Well, and Mayor Johnson, your answer to Mayor Reed’s question about how you got that done was interesting to me, because you, you, said. Said it wasn’t — correct me if I’m wrong — you didn’t just say I directed an agency. You said the policy people in the mayor’s office working with an agency, and to me what I heard, or what I’m assuming is that it had the imprimatur of the mayor on it. How much does that matter?

Johnson: Well, it matters a ton. It matters a ton, and make no mistake … This was my direction, right? And I had my staff and my department head, that it’s my appointee confirmed by the council, to work on this to accomplish the goal that I sought fit to happen. But it was important to me. And you know, my staff lined up and got it done, and I think another thing that’s important here too, like I’m a …

Nutter: That’s called leadership.

Johnson: I think that for, for, for a lot of folks, and you got a lot of, you know, folks that watch the podcast, many of them, Mayor Reed said, are you know, possibly looking to run for office down the line … like I’m not, I’m not a big yeller or screamer, you know. I’m a, I’m a nice, a nice guy. I think that most people would describe me that way. But I do hold people accountable, you know. There have been people that I have fired, there are people who, for cause, right? There are people who I’ve not reappointed to positions.

I’ve taken some really tough stances. I mean, even what we talked about earlier, I’m a Democrat, Democratic city, bringing the Republican National Convention here. That can be tough. So, you got to have some backbone when you’re doing this job too, and I think that when you have those things, especially when things are happening because of government inertia, it sometimes can be difficult to get things like that done, but when you have those leadership skills and capabilities, then I think you’re able to able to move the needle and get stuff done.

Platt: Did you ever rip a city hall employee’s phone out of the wall in front of everyone?

Reed: It was removed neatly. I would never damage my whole wall.

Nutter: He’s not trying to damage the place.

Reed: It was removed in a pristine fashion.

Johnson: Can’t say I’ve done that one. No.

Platt: But the context of that is the mayor wasn’t getting his call returned …

Reed: Busy guy. Yeah, busy guy. He was a busy guy.

Unknown: Is this thing broken?

Reed: Man, I was, I was just trying to build a one and a half billion dollar stadium, and I couldn’t find the guy. Yeah. yeah.

Johnson: When the mayor calls, you better answer that phone, though.

Platt: Mayor Johnson, I can’t thank you enough. I love that there’s this young cohort of mayors, and we’ve talked to so many of them, and it gives, gives, gives me, you know, it’s easy to get down these days when you’re just following the national news, but gives, gives a lot, I hope it gives our audience a lot of hope to hear from young guys like you and young leaders like Mayor Gallego, we had on, she was terrific. Mayor Cognetti, who is violating the mayoral code, the mayoral code, and running for Congress.

Really impressive people who are problem solvers, as you outlined. So, I can’t thank you enough for joining us, and for the work you do.

Johnson: Hey, thank you, guys, for having me. And yes, Kate’s great. Paige, great, running for the house. I mean, just a number of great mayors across the country: Bibb in Cleveland, Pureval in Cincinnati, Ginther in Columbus, Brandon Scott over in Baltimore, Andre Dickens down in Atlanta, Cherelle Parker over in Philly, Quinton Lucas over in Kansas City. I mean, the list goes on and on and on. Just so many incredible mayors that I’m honored, really, to be in the same cohort with. Folks are kicking butt.

Nutter: Hey, Mayor Reed, what do you think? When, when, when a political person like Mayor Johnson starts running off the names of 20-some odd folks, so like, working on becoming president of the U.S .Conference of Mayors, sounds like to me.

Reed: Fortunately, he’s got Professor Mayor right here, the person that could tell him how to do it better than anybody. I tell you, I was in, I spent last week in Accra, Ghana. And I think one of the many highlights of my trip was, I was sitting in a restaurant and a government official from Accra walked up to me and started debating me about our podcast.

Platt: Are you serious?

Reed: And I don’t mean a couple of sentences, I mean he had a view on our view. I mean, and it just was striking to me that it wasn’t just I knew you on a podcast. I mean this, this conversation ended up going off for like 15 minutes. So it just goes to show you, you never know who you’re impacting, because there’s just so much going on on the African continent, and so much advancement going on. It was just, was just really something.

Platt: That is a point of pride. We are big in Ghana.

Reed: It all counts.

Platt: I love that.

And really, what we’re talking about leadership on every level, so it applies wherever you are. I can’t thank you guys enough. Thank you again for joining us. Mayor Johnson. Gentlemen, you are, you are terrific. Thank you. And by the way, for our listeners, Mayor Reed came through. We have a legend lined up.

Reed: That’s right. A guest coming up will be … Should I give it away or should I just tease?

Nutter: I saw that on my calendar.

Platt: Should I give it away?

Reed: I think you ought to give it away. Give it away.

Platt: Yeah, the speaker, Willie Brown, will be joining us for a future episode very soon. And I’m already, I’m already nervous.

Reed: With Ambassador Young, after that.

Nutter: I don’t, I don’t even know how to approach that one. I just, I think we just asked him one question and let him go. No 45 minutes.

Platt: I’m wearing my fedora for that one.

Nutter: I’ll definitely be dressed up for that one.

Platt: Alright Yeah, hi guys. This has been great. Thank you so much. Thank you, man.

Nutter: Mayor Johnson, Great to see you.

Johnson: Thank you.

Reed: Mayor Johnosn, you’re as good as everybody says you are.

Johnson: Hey, thank you, everybody. Mayor, it’s great. Great to see you guys.

Nutter: You too, man. 

Johnson: Alright, we’ll get you soon. Bye bye.