The Eagles were back in the national spotlight this week, when 20 of the 53 players visited the White House, and most of the attention (as usual) went to two: MVP Quarterback Jalen Hurts and Running Back Saquon Barkley. Hurts did not go. (Didn’t say why; the White House cited “scheduling conflicts.”) Barkley not only attended the White House photo op, but also golfed with the president at Trump’s Bedminster, NJ golf club before flying to Washington, D.C. with him in Air Force One.

       Listen to the interview edition here:

For this, Barkley got a lot of hate on social media. He responded with a tweet defending his decision.

(In case you’re living off the grid, here’s a bit of background about the controversy: Back in 2018, after the Eagles’ first Super Bowl victory, three players said they would not be attending the traditional White House visit, so President Trump disinvited the whole team. It’s one reason why Trump openly rooted against us at this year’s Super Bowl.)

Our star players’ differing decisions this week — and how they communicated them to fans — have been lighting up the internet these past few days, including in a column from two-time Super Bowl champion and three-time Eagles Pro Bowl Safety Malcolm Jenkins, who shared praise for Jalen Hurts on his Substack Love, Art & War (which we also shared in The Citizen here).

Some claim a visit with the president is a rite of passage for championship winners — no biggie; it’s not political. Others, like Citizen Digital Media Marketing and Community Manager (and Eagles super fan) Olivia Kram, are outraged at players who seemingly looked past the tumult that is Trump and his latest administration for a fun-filled field trip to the White House. And some, like The Citizen Co-founder Larry Platt, posit: Maybe it’s time to find new role models.

Platt and Kram sat down with Citizen Staff Writer Malcolm Burnley to hash out their own takes on the Eagles’ White House visit and add some historical context to the larger picture of athletes and their occasional not-so-perfect approach to politics.

The conversation has been lightly edited for clarity.

Larry Platt: What do we do about the fact that Olivia is just so wrong?

Olivia Kram: It won’t be the first time.

LP: I’m just teasing. You know, one of the reasons we started The Citizen was imagining if Philadelphia cared about its civic life to the degree we care about our athletics. And so whenever there’s such interest in what an athlete says or doesn’t say, it calls attention to the fact that there’s a weakness, this vacuum in our civic dialogue.

OK: I don’t think I disagree with you about that, Larry. I would love to live in a world where people didn’t look at athletes as the people who should have guiding principles we should strive to be like. Unfortunately, that’s not the reality we’re in right now; they are public figures who children look up to. Many people look to athletes for influence, and that ultimately is where I have issues with what Saquon Barkley said, and it’s quite a statement:

lol some people are really upset cause I played golfed and flew to the White House with the PRESIDENT. Maybe I just respect the office, not a hard concept to understand. Just golfed with Obama not too long ago…and look forward to finishing my round with Trump ! Now ya get out my…

— Saquon Barkley (@saquon) April 28, 2025

Malcolm Burnley: It sounds like your issue with it comes down to wanting him to explain his principles, or to have a more principled reasoning for why he met with Trump. Am I right?

OK: My initial gut reaction to this tweet was, What do you mean, ‘with all this politics stuff?’ People are going to have a political feeling about you spending time with the head political figure in the United States right now.

He also just totally shrugs it off as like, I was just golfing with my bud. It’s the fact that it is a charged decision, and he’s coming out and explaining it with such a blah statement, which didn’t really mean anything. It felt insensitive to what other people are feeling and experiencing. But then again, I go back to Larry, your point of: He’s an athlete, and he can kind of do what he wants.

“I would have liked to see Barkley say: You know, whether or not the President and I agree on everything doesn’t really matter here. What matters is that I respect this office and its job …” — Olivia Kram

LP: Look, I’m sitting here wearing my Jackie Robinson t-shirt. He’s a hero of mine, as is another athlete, Muhammad Ali — who withstood five years of being banned from boxing for his principled stance against the Vietnam War. He came out with the most pithy of anti-war phrases: I ain’t got no quarrel with the Viet Cong. So, I’m all for athletes speaking their minds — provided that they put some reputational risk on the line. That’s the definition of courage, right?

And we’ve had, in this week, two examples from our own Eagles. We’ve had Saquon Barkley, as you’ve just outlined, and we’ve had Jalen Hurts. And, you know, we at The Citizen love Jalen Hurts; we named him Citizen of the Year. But he didn’t actually put any reputation at risk by saying he had some conflicting appointment or whatever. That’s kind of a cop out. At least Barkley put some of his reputation at risk. He offended some people who might disagree with him, for golfing with Trump, but it seems to me that that’s more courageous.

Maybe I’m wedded to the Ali model, but I think you have to say I’m not going because … I can’t pretend that I’m OK with a president who’s disappearing people without due process, or whatever. Or Magic Johnson, when George H.W. Bush put him on the national AIDS Council, and he went out in the Rose Garden and resigned because he said it was all bullshit. That pissed off a lot of people, and that’s where you go from athlete to activist. And both of these guys are, like, not doing the athlete-activist thing.

MB: It seems to me that they’re both trying to wade into political waters without being partisan, but then also taking after Michael Jordan. What was his famous line? “Republicans buy sneakers, too.” It’s kind of what Barkley is trying to communicate, saying that he golfed with Obama, too. He’s trying to preserve the veil of nonpartisanship. So it’s having it both ways.

OK: In an important moment in America where people might be looking for people to say things, I don’t necessarily think Jalen Hurts did it right. I also don’t think he did it wrong. I think by removing himself from the situation, the way he did, I think that he just said: I’m not involved in this. I don’t want to be involved in this. I don’t want to be the person that you’re asking me to be right now, to have some sort of statement, or to smile with Trump, or to confront Trump, I just don’t want to be involved in that.

“Just because I can run fast and jump high doesn’t mean I should raise your kids.” — Larry Platt

LP: I’ll play devil’s advocate a little bit. Malcolm, you brought up the “Republicans buy sneakers too” comment. That was Michael Jordan when Harvey Gantt, a credible Black challenger, was running against Jesse Helms — I think it’s fair to say, a racist senator — in North Carolina.

Jordan, who hails from North Carolina, didn’t endorse him, and there are some who felt like he could have made the difference in that election. After it was reported, Jordan later denied saying that. But I wrote a cover story for GQ’s 50th anniversary, about 20 years ago, and I did an interview with Jordan. And he didn’t deny it to me, but he made this really interesting point. He saw this call for him to weigh in on politics as a media setup, basically.

Jordan said, and I’m paraphrasing: I’ve been focused with the most extreme tunnel vision on one thing, to be the best basketball player in the history of the universe, and then you come at me demanding that I talk about stuff I’m not prepared to talk about — to take me down off the pedestal you put me on. I remember he used that phrase, the pedestal you put me on. As someone who was critical of his comments before, I left thinking that he had an argument.

And it relates to the Charles Barkley commercial, “I am not a role model.”

Just because I can run fast and jump high doesn’t mean I should raise your kids. There is a burden we put on these guys. Take the beloved former Philadelphia Eagle, Reggie White, who gave this speech to the Wisconsin legislature. White said: “Blacks are gifted at worship and celebration. If you go to a Black church, you see people jumping up and down because they really get into it. Whites are good at organizations. You guys do a good job building businesses and things of that nature, and you know how to tap into money. Hispanics are gifted in family structure, and you can see as a Hispanic person, and they can put 20 or 30 people in one home. The Japanese and other Asians are inventive, and can turn a television into a watch.”

I mean, their mouths were agape. I’m worried that we’re investing too much in what these guys are saying. But I’m also wearing my Jackie Robinson t-shirt.

OK: But we spend so much time with these athletes, even if they don’t actually spend any time with us. We’re in our house watching them. We’re following them on social media. We’re lining up, by the thousands, to see them in a parade. I rode my bike 12 miles in one day to get to the Eagles parade, and then I walked another 12 miles. And let me be clear, no athlete is a role model of mine. My role model was my grandmother.

LP: Why is that?

OK: Why? Because she was a badass. She said what she was thinking. Honestly, she probably would have tweeted something like Saquon Barkley. She didn’t care what people thought about what she said, but she was a loving woman. For me, when I decide who my role models are, I need to know their character. And I couldn’t possibly know the character of someone I have not actually had intimate conversations with.

MB: I’m curious to ask you, Larry, having known Charles Barkley for 30 years or however long. He’s very involved in a lot of civic causes, and he just recently made some political comments. So he’s no longer afraid to wade into politics, despite the “I’m not a role model” campaign. So, do you know if he’s ever revisited that commercial, and if he would do it again now? Does he still think he’s not a role model?

“I would love to live in a world where people didn’t look at athletes as the people who should have guiding principles we should strive to be like. Unfortunately, that’s not the reality we’re in right now.” — Kram

LP: He has tweaked it. He now says that athletes can be secondary role models, but your primary role models are parents and teachers. But he’s always been unafraid. Pat Croce, the former owner of the Sixers, once said to me, “There are two people in America who can say whatever they want without consequences: Donald Trump and Charles Barkley.” Both are somewhat Teflon, and both are utterly authentic. They are just comfortable in their own skin.

Charles, I think, is much funnier and more likable. It’s worth noting that he was very critical of anyone on the Eagles who did not attend the White House ceremony, because of the respect for the office. Part of the problem is the diminution of institutions and of respect for institutions, because institutions are the only thing to keep us from autocracy. He would argue that they’re not going to kiss Trump’s ring. It’s to show respect for the institution of the presidency. And I’m not sure younger Charles would have made that argument.

OK: Also, we don’t have to look to Colin Kaepernick, as a guide for what the Eagles could do. I mean, look at former Eagles’ players Chris Long and Malcolm Jenkins and others from the 2018 Super Bowl-winning team who took a stand with a fist up and a hand on the shoulder.

But, I recognize that I’m being critical of Barkley and noting what he shouldn’t have said. I’d like to share what I think he could have done to make me happy. We care a lot about citizenship here at The Citizen.

He is loud and proud about Philly and Pennsylvania and things he cares about. He’s given donations to charities. I’ve seen the pictures of him at ACME donating turkeys. I would have liked to see him say, ‘You know, whether or not the President and I agree on everything doesn’t really matter here. What matters is that I respect this office and its job, and I’m going to talk to him about the things I care about, and hopefully Trump can learn more about Philly from me.’

Instead, we just got pictures of them cheesing together.

LP: You’re making the Bill Maher argument, right? Bill Maher met Trump and got all of this progressive backlash, but his answer was interesting. He said, I challenged the president. I used this opportunity to tell him, you’re scaring people. Why do you want to scare your fellow Americans?

That was enough for me. It wasn’t enough for my wife, who then washed her hands of Maher. I think the other problem with your argument is that, what if Barkley doesn’t share your views? What if he’s fine with the state of Trump and Trumpism, and in that case, I’m fine with him saying that he’s going because he supports MAGA.

“Part of the problem is the diminution of institutions and of respect for institutions, because institutions are the only thing to keep us from autocracy.” — Platt

OK: The reality is that Donald Trump is defying the Constitution and due process. To just golf with him and to not acknowledge, even a little bit, Hey, this is a political person and that’s really charged right now, but I’m going to go golfing with him anyway. I think there’s a way he could have said, I look forward to talking to the President about what more we can do for feeding the hungry in Philadelphia. Most of the time with these athletes, it’s mental health, it’s food shortage, it’s gun safety — it’s the big ones that the NFL supports. Any of those would have been a better approach than to just say, It’s not politics.

LP: That’s good PR advice for any of these athletes.

MB: I have a different theory about the Barkley controversy. I actually think it was a very productive golf outing, because Trump went on record saying that he wants to keep the Tush Push! It was a secret ambassadorial trip by Saquon, because you know nothing is more political than the Tush Push.

OK: Well … if it’s for the Tush Push … maybe I’ll change my tune. Kidding. I think I’m ready to forget about the Eagles until August.

LP: Good luck with that in Philly!

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