Something I’m thankful for this holiday season? To work for an organization that observes a four-day workweek (four days of work with a “flex” day that, ideally, is a day off). In 2023, the Citizen joined a vanguard of companies around the world that are no longer playing by the old rules of the workplace, and in doing so are exploding the idea that more hours equates to more productivity.

In fact, studies suggest that a four-day workweek can be correlated with increased revenue, which is why more and more companies — like Insomnia Cookies here in Philly, Kickstarter, and Unilever New Zealand — are taking the plunge.

“Instead of forcing people back to the office, and hoping that’ll fix it, what if you just give people more weekend?” — Julian Plotnick of 4 Day Philly

But until speaking with local software engineer Julian Plotnick, the thought never crossed my mind that a four-day workweek could be about something bigger, a mechanism to improve the economy (and the people who are a part of it) beyond those workplaces where it takes hold.

“Something the city cares about a lot right now is, How do we get people to spend money in the city?” Plotnick says. “Instead of forcing people back to the office, and hoping that’ll fix it, what if you just give people more weekend?”

Plotnick, a 30-year-old Cheltenham native, notes a historical parallel. A century ago, the Ford Motor Company made a similar case while helping to usher in a national 40-hour workweek. “One big part of Henry Ford’s reasoning was giving his employees time to go out and spend money,” Plotnick says. (You can read more about that history in the timeline below.)

“It’s good for the culture of companies: You trust employees to be adults, and they’ll give more effort.” — Julian Plotnick

Plotnick is the founder of 4 Day Philly, a group he formed to spread the gospel of less time “on the clock” — and how that benefits workers and management alike. In this interview, he spoke to The Citizen about his own experience with a 32-hour workweek, why he’s turned his attention to advocacy, and how it could help the city’s economy in myriad ways, from halting the “brain drain” to bettering mental health to unifying disparate sectors around a common idea.

Where did this journey begin for you?

I went to Drexel [University], and my first co-op was at Lockheed Martin, and they had a policy of flexible schedules. But you had to work 40 hours, so you could do four, 10-hour days or you could do 9-hour days and then get every other Friday off. I only ever tried it once, where I had 10-hour days for two weeks in a row, and I burned out on that, because I was coming into the office when it was dark and I left when it was dark. It was brutal.

After I graduated, I had a few years of working in the real world where, you know, every day is work. I got a job with a company called Metropolitan Acoustics, where I was doing R&D to develop a product so that we could launch a startup out of this other company. And so I enjoyed the work, and I didn’t really go on a lot of vacations. When it would get to the last couple of months of the year, I’d have like 15 vacation days that if I don’t use them, they’ll expire, and so I’d just take off Fridays for the rest of the year. Whenever I did that, I found that I was more efficient at getting my work done, and I felt more rested.

Ok, so you originally used your vacation days to create a four-day week for yourself on occasion. Then, what? How did you make it permanent?

With Covid, there was a lot of pushback at first with remote work, but then people started realizing that they were happier with it, and there are ways to make it more productive. Around then I started seeing a lot more articles about the four-day workweek being good for companies. The main arguments are that it doesn’t decrease productivity; it either stays the same or goes up — particularly for things like software development, but across a surprising range of industries. And so, after reading a bunch of articles and looking at studies, I brought it to my boss.

Everyone reading would like to know: How’d you nail the pitch?

I basically said: We’re trying to launch a company, and you’re going to need to hire software developers. But as a small company, you’re not going to be able to offer as much pay as Comcast can. It might be a distinction that will let us get the best people. And the first time I brought it up to my boss, I was surprised she said, “That’s a great idea. We’ll do that when we spin off the new company.” But a year later, I said, “Can I just do it now?” And she said yes.

How did it go at first? Did you find you had to retrain yourself to not respond to things all week and actually take off?

For the first six months. I wasn’t supposed to tell anyone at the company, because it was sort of like a trial period. I only worked with a small team there. In the beginning, there were a few times I’d get messages from someone on a Friday, and I had to drop whatever I was doing and respond with short messages. But for the most part, that didn’t take up too much time.

“Life, Liberty and the Pursuit of Happiness fits right in with a four-day work week.” — Plotnick

And then, after that initial six months, I talked to my boss again about saying, I know that I’m doing a different thing than everyone else, but, I’ve seen how everyone works in this office, and I’m pretty sure the rest of the people here could do a four-day week also.

What ultimately convinced management to take the plunge?

I would say the biggest thing that helped was an employee who left the company right as I was pitching this. He took another job from a bigger company, again, because bigger companies can pay more. And we set up a meeting before he left, sort of like an exit interview with him. They got to ask, “If we had done this three months ago, would you have left?” He said, No. That helped carry home the message.

Do you think creating a shorter workweek helps build trust between workers and their employers?

I finally installed Outlook on my phone when I got the four-day workweek. I was like, Okay, I’ll have the day off, but I’ll be available for emails if something comes in. I probably should have already done that. But beforehand, I thought that if I’m not at work, I don’t need to worry about it. So I think that it’s good for the culture of companies: You trust employees to be adults, and they’ll give more effort.

The idea is gaining traction not only in Philly, but nationally and internationally as well. Bernie Sanders recently endorsed a bill that would make 32 hours the national standard workweek. Have you been in touch with other organizations that are also trying to make this happen?

Yes. Right now, there’s one other group doing local efforts in Minnesota. And I’ve started working with WorkFour, a nonprofit doing the same thing nationally. When I said what I was doing, they suggested I create a chapter program. It’s not legally tied to their group yet, but I’m planning to actually set that up in the next couple of months. Right now I’m in a phase of figuring out what this all looks like locally and where the best places are to get early adopters.

Tell me more about your strategic approach: Are you reaching out to employers? Employees? How do you spread the movement?

One of the early things I figured out is that everyone’s read the same studies and that you can’t pitch it to an individual company. Like, if you come up to someone and say you should do a four-day workweek for your employees, they’re gonna say, No, not until everyone else is doing it. They’re always suspicious. But if I ask, well, What if Philly did it? Then, they’re like, Oh, I love that idea. In general, I’ve been trying to follow Philly news and just see where a four-day workweek could solve other things here.

Like what?

Well, the “return to office” debate has been a pretty big aspect of this. I’ve been pitching the idea that the City should bring people back to the office full-time, but you make “full-time” be four days a week. If you did that, I bet the unions will stop suing about it.

I’m also trying to figure out a way to tie this into messaging for the 250th coming up. [In 2026, Philly will host a celebration for the 250th anniversary of the country’s founding.] There’s a lot of institutional energy behind trying to figure out how to get actual people excited about it. People in Philadelphia aren’t feeling super patriotic right now. And yet, I feel like Life, Liberty and the Pursuit of Happiness fits right in with a four-day work week.

How do we do this citywide?

There are two bills pending in the Pennsylvania legislature right now related to four-day workweeks: HB1065, which is talking about giving a tax break to employers for offering a four-day workweek, and HR122, looking at doing a cost benefit analysis on offering four-day workweeks to Commonwealth employees. So I’ve actually started doing outreach to representatives about signing on as cosponsors to the existing bills, as well as changes that I’d like to see made. I’ve also started conversations with City Councilmembers about City versions of this.

Here at The Citizen, we’re all about getting involved civically in your community. It seems like the pitch is economics-based, but it’s also more than that, no?

Oh, absolutely. A lot of people in arts communities have said similar things, like their passion lies outside of what they do for money. Just having that extra time would allow them to do more of the things that actually contribute more to Philadelphia.

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